Conserv Discussion Forum

Yeah, I know I hate oil companies not passing along the savings. I seem to notice solar panel makers brag about tax credits and still charge an arm and a leg for the panels.

Lawstud-I appreciate your interest and research into biodiesel costs. You are clearly an intelligent person with strong investigative skills, so why don’t you accept my challenge?

If you truly believe that you’re Conserv Fuel is gouging you, which you apparently do, then why don’t you find us additional biodiesel suppliers selling ASTM D6751 spec B99 at a fair price? 

I’ll save you some time and tell you that the only supplier of biodiesel in the LA area is Imperial Western Products, where we buy it from.  By the way, OPIS is a price survey index, they don’t actually sell fuel.

Even if I was to tell you what our margin is on the fuel we sell, what does that mean to you?  In order for you to understand our margins, you would also have to know what our corporate overhead, capital improvements, cost of capital, insurance, payroll, lease, credit card and permitting fees, and number of other expenses are in order for you to make any sense of this number.

Believe me, if I wanted to get rich, I certainly wouldn’t be wasting my time dealing with selling biodiesel to the general public. 

Once again, if Conserv Fuel is really “gouging” people, then why hasn’t one other station in all of Los Angeles jumped on the “gouging” bandwagon and started selling biodiesel also?

If you feel so passionately about selling biodiesel at a fair price, why don’t you open up your own biodiesel fueling station?  Only then will you realize that selling fuel is a little more involved than getting a price quote from OPIS or deciphering the cost of waste vegetable oil.

AndrewKoenig-No, we don’t have the capacity to handle WVO at our stations, sorry.

Kris you’re smart and I appreciate the reply.  I’m sorry you have to get so defensive about only the mention of the word “gouging.” --I’m never surprised to get a big stink when I ask what someone paid for what they are selling. People though should understand that people need to make a profit otherwise the product would not be available in the first place.

I do not care what the freaking thing is sold at. I took action because you were making up reasons for the high cost of a biodiesel that you weren’t even selling!

Look at my last post I quote you as saying “Unfortunately, today soy along with all agricultural products are highly correlated to the price of petrol due to their dependence on conventional energy sources, such as diesel #2, to bring them to market. It is my hope that I’ll one day be able to offer biodiesel made from algae, not soy bean oil.”

OPIC (oil price information service, not sellers) says $410-415 for the gross average wholesale rack price for B99 in Los Angeles.

This equates to $4.10 a gallon for Soy Methyl Esters biodiesel.
B99 COMBINED FEEDSTOCK is $4.15 a gallon.
GROSS WHOLESALE B99 MULT BIODIESEL PRICES has gone up to $4.20 a gallon.

These rack prices do not take into account the 15 cents freight costs and 15 cents throughput per gallon. so plus 30 cents = $4.40 a gallon for combined feedstock.
Credit cards charge at a minimum 2.5% of the purchase price ($5.29, or 13.22 cents a gallon) 4.40+ .1322 = $4.5322 a gallon, add all the taxes (sales, diesel, etc = +0.62-72)

= $5.15-5.25 a gallon. Add insurance, employees, property tax, etc and it’s a thin margin to sell it at $5.29.

Do I think you are gouging customers, absolutely not. The cold hard fact is suppliers who make and sell bio-diesel price it as close to diesel prices as they can. Do I think wholesale suppliers are gouging, yes. There is a reason VC money is starting to pour into these things.

(of course I made assumptions and Mr. Moller would be better able to clarify my numbers)

With luck diesel owners in August may benefit with biodiesel. That time of year diesel usually goes higher than biodiesel.

I prefer to use biodiesel. But when diesel is over 1 dollar cheaper per gallon at 76 in Hawthorne, at 100 gallons per fill-up that is over 100 dollars difference.

These numbers don’t promote the use of biodiesel in any way - sorry.

Then philihere.. you clearly are only concerned with the price and little with the reasons many of us pump the fuel in the first place.  Phil think of it as a premium fuel perhaps that will help.  And that by pumping the fuel, you are not supporting the middle east nor are you adding to our climate problems.

Keep paying the price and business people will continue selling it to you for what you are willing to pay.  This has little to do with our environment on the seller’s side, or it would be made more appealing for purchase.

Perhaps that does occur somewhere in this country but not at conserve or CA for that matter.
Kris is a good person but must bare the market trends.
The rate is the same all the way up the west coast of CA… 4.99
i just went to nocal over this past wkend. From small mom and pop orgs (Yokayo in Ukiah..Kumar- great guy that does workshops on making your own brew at the Solar Living Institute) to “bigger business” pumps in SBarbara.
Same price.

Bottom line if you dont like the price find a way to make it yourself.
i am willing to pay b/c of lack of adequate space.
It isnt absurd.
We are doing more than most drivers in this country are not.
Voting with our purchase.
Good luck to you

Thanks for the civilized discussion. I too hope biofuels will catch on. 

I must acknowledge that the owner of these forums has allowed this open discussion to continue, as I admit I thought my post(s) would probably have been removed, but they have been allowed to remain. That does say something respectful about the owner imo.

Good luck to all of you.

It was a great discussion.  It assists in explaining to others who may share the same feelings/opinions.
I just know I would rather give my money to the local community.  The profits exxon makes disturbs me greatly.
Dont get me wrong, business needs profits to grow, but when your not dumping a good deal of those profits into R&D;and instead continuing to pay lawyers to fight against a spill in Valdez that was entirely your fault, for example.... 
I pull in and pay 4.99 with a smile on my face.

I’m jealous of my friend in Colorado where he has a choice of what type of biodiesel he could buy. WVO Based, VO based, and different blends, hes paying $3.99 now.

In time there will be more refineries and more stations selling the product, I put some blame on LA County who forced several stations last year to stop selling B99 product [they now sell B5].

I’m voting with my wallet, and continue to fill up with B99, it wouldn’t be a big issue if I was driving a fuel sipping car, but for us who run medium trucks, the fast approaching 1.00 differential is going to be a factor. If prices keep dropping then B99 will drop.

I just wish I didn’t have to drive a 20 mile round trip to fill up with B99.